For the past 15 years, complying with the FMLA has been complex, but at least the law (once you figured it out) stayed the same. On Jan. 16, that all changed. Here are the changes you must comply with. FMLA Intermittent Leave: 5 Guidelines.

Comma or no comma when using an abbreviation after a name

Question: “The Gregg Reference Manual says to use a comma to set off abbreviations that follow a person’s name, such as “Jane Doe, CPS.”  I recently proofed a newsletter where some names did not have commas.  When I brought this to the attention of the person submitting the information, she said that other newsletters didn’t used commas. Has this grammar rule changed or are people just getting it wrong.  Should you still use the comma?” — Diana

 

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For the past 15 years, complying with the FMLA has been complex, but at least the law (once you figured it out) stayed the same. On Jan. 16, that all changed. Here are the changes you must comply with. FMLA Intermittent Leave: 5 Guidelines.


33 Responses to "Comma or no comma when using an abbreviation after a name"

 
Liz
said this on 04 Sep 2009 2:08:12 PM EST
As far as I know the rules have not changed. I always place a comma after someone's name and before their title.

 
gamehen
said this on 04 Sep 2009 2:08:36 PM EST
I don't believe the grammar rule has changed. I do believe that people are careless more often and let things slide. Also, just because other publications make errors is no reason to follow the example. Use the comma.

 
Lisa P
said this on 04 Sep 2009 2:25:57 PM EST
Although many grammar and punctuation rules have changed over time, this one has not. I agree with gamehen - just because someone else does it does not make it correct.

 
Red
said this on 04 Sep 2009 2:26:15 PM EST
Grammar is one of my pet peeves. Or, rather, poor grammar . . . I would follow the "rule" as set out by Gregg's. Like my mother used to say, "If all the other kids were jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, would you do it too?"

Most of us are not experts in all areas, so when you have a question about something, it pays to consult with an authority in that area. Your gut told you it was wrong, Gregg's confirmed it, so go with it. If your co-worker wants to put something out that reflects badly her and/or her organization, you won't be able to stop her. I hope she takes your advise.

 
Mirna
said this on 11 Sep 2009 1:35:28 PM EST
I can tell you know what you are talking about by seeing how correctly you used your punctuation. Thanks for your comment.

 
Jenny
said this on 11 Sep 2009 1:37:07 PM EST
I couldn't agree more. I am seeing a lot of people in high-profile positions making so many grammar and punctuation mistakes that it scares me for the future of the written word. And I think I might cry if I see "LOL" show up in business correspondence one more time!

 
Sonya
said this on 04 Sep 2009 2:30:16 PM EST
I like to second on what Red said. We have the same problem in our office. The younger generation is not interested in correct grammar. Continue to use the "comma".

 
Sharron
said this on 04 Sep 2009 2:34:35 PM EST
With specific reference to the Certified Professional Secretary(R) (CPS(R)) and the Certified Administrative Professional(R) (CAP(R)) designations, International Association of Administrative Professionals(R) states that there should be no comma between the name and the designation. This is an IAAP(R) practice.

Other designations may have their own style requirements.

 
Paula P. Hooper
said this on 11 Sep 2009 1:06:10 PM EST
Sharon is correct. I completed my paralegal certification last year and the testing covered this rule: No comma is placed between the name and the name and the designation, or between the name and Jr. (John Doe Jr.); It is understood that the title goes with the name.

 
Yvonne
said this on 04 Sep 2009 2:36:42 PM EST
The Chicago Manual of Style recommends not using a comma to separate the Jr./Sr./III from the last name, but you should follow the preferences of the indivdual if you know those preferences.

 
Deb Lamb
said this on 05 Sep 2009 7:48:03 AM EST
There is a pause after Jane Doe, so use the comma. The Gregg Reference Manual is correct!

 
Karen Troupe
said this on 05 Sep 2009 10:18:21 AM EST
As noted by Sharron, although the "official" grammar rules do require the comma, many professional organizations specify otherwise for their specific letter designations. That makes it very difficult for administrators, unless you are a member of the organization and know which way they prefer. I'd say when in doubt and with no easy way to verify, go with Gregg.

 
Danielle Kenyon
said this on 07 Sep 2009 12:08:41 PM EST
I was trained (very long ago!) to use the comma. I've seen more recent recommendations that suggest using fewer commas to prevent a "busy, cluttered" look/feel to the writing. Especially in a long string of names and certifications, commas can get out of hand! Now I use as few commas as I can get away with and still make the writing easy to understand.
-Danielle

 
Susan
said this on 08 Sep 2009 9:21:34 AM EST
The tenth edition of the Gregg reference manual states " the trend is not to set off elements like Jr., Sr., III, Inc., or Ltd. (for example, Guy Tracy Jr. and Redd Inc.): however , individual preferences should be respected when known." (page 16, section 122f) It does also state that you should use commas for Julie Merkin, Ph.d.

 
Sherri
said this on 08 Sep 2009 11:14:09 AM EST
I use a coma.

 
Karen R.
said this on 08 Sep 2009 1:05:08 PM EST
I've always used the comma. I have a theory that it's being done away with because so much is stored on computers everywhere that every character counts! It will be difficult to change my ways, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
On a related note, a few people mentioned incorrect grammar. I have always thought that grammar referred to word usage, not punctuation issues. Is that correct, or has grammar expanded to include these issues as well?

 
Priscilla
said this on 08 Sep 2009 3:13:11 PM EST
I am glad to see there are still so many of the "old" school even if they are from the younger generation. The comma is in for me.

Karen, you are correct punctuation is not grammar. It is punctuation.

 
Carole
said this on 11 Sep 2009 1:17:14 PM EST
I agree - the comma stays - the younger generation has gotten way too lax on some of these issues.

 
sjb
said this on 11 Sep 2009 1:31:38 PM EST
Regarding comma usage...when writing a series of "things" such as: books, lamps, brooms and clothes...should there be a comma after "brooms"? I have an ongoing discussion with another person I work with...

 
Jenny
said this on 11 Sep 2009 1:42:58 PM EST
sjb, I grew up believing that the comma was there; without the comma it appears and sounds as if "brooms and clothes" are their own little grouping. However I have since been told this is incorrect (I am still not sure if I believe them though!).

 
Liz
said this on 11 Sep 2009 4:22:44 PM EST
I attended a grammar seminar last year and there has been a change in this instance ... resulting from a legal case where there were a list of names, possibly in a will, and the last two that read something like, "Jack, John, Susie and Jane", Susie and Jane had to split their third! Had it been written with a comma after Susie, each would have gotten one quarter of a share. So, it depends on what the meaning is as to whether or not you use a comma before the last "and".

 
Sharon
said this on 11 Sep 2009 1:54:47 PM EST
As addressed by other replies there are different standards that can be applied. I worked for 14 years for a publishing company and would run into this frequently. I have an English degree and at first would argue that this is how I was taught. Finally a very diplomatic editor pointed out to me that there are several style publication and rules to follow--Chicago Manual of Style (the one we used) and Gregg reference among the many but also the 2 most popular from what I can tell. It might be an idea to find out the style that most suits your staff and then have the book on hand as a reference. Then you can refer to the style book--all questionable grammar would then be consistent within the style.

 
Carol Schmidt
said this on 11 Sep 2009 2:19:26 PM EST
Where one needs to be careful is with company names. Some companies purposely do not use a comma in their name and are registered to do business under their name with no comma -- example: my employer -- Caterpillar Inc. Use of a comma would violate our trademark protection guidelines.

 
Red
said this on 11 Sep 2009 2:20:15 PM EST
I work for a government agency, and follow the agency "style guide". If I have a question not covered by our agency rules, I refer to Gregg's. I agree that each admin needs to follow the style preferred by his or her organization.

And, yes, I meant to say that poor grammar and/or punctuation really bugs me. Sorry!

 
Danie
said this on 11 Sep 2009 2:21:41 PM EST
I don't think the rule has changed. However, some folks have a personal preference about their own names and how they want them written. Few do not use the comma. My rule of thumb is "when in doubt, check it out" by asking the person directly their preference. If you cannot do that, then use the old rule.

 
Sherry
said this on 11 Sep 2009 2:23:23 PM EST
I would like to see more responses on sjb's comment above about whether or not a comma follows the next to last item before writing and. I always thought a comma did not belong there. But Word keeps correcting me. Something else Word keeps correcting me on and it's driving me insane is the rule of 2 spaces after a period! Word keeps wanting to correct me by only placing 1 space after a period. Has anyone else experienced this?

 
Liz
said this on 11 Sep 2009 4:32:40 PM EST
See my comment above about a legal case interpretation. Either is correct but it sometimes depends on the meaning. I was also told in the seminar not to rely 100% on grammar checkers or even Wikipedia (written by anyone) ... go to the official resources with which everyone appears to be familar. Grammar, punctuation, and spelling evolve over time. Computers have changed a lot of things, especially punctuation. I believe the Post Office prefers no punctuation. Punctuation in a person's name or company name should be their personal preference if known. Every effort should be made to find out.

Regarding the two spaces after a period ... this drives me crazy, too! I was taught two spaces. It gives a visual break at the end of the sentence. I have no idea who changed it but I do believe that one space is a acceptable in this day and age.

 
Karen
said this on 11 Sep 2009 3:50:06 PM EST
Here is an except from a writing on commas from Purdue University:

Use commas to separate three or more words, phrases, or clauses written in a series.

The Constitution establishes the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of government.

It seems as though putting the comma before the "and" is correct.

 
Pam
said this on 11 Sep 2009 4:38:50 PM EST
When offices changed from typewriters to computers, the two spaces after a period rule changed. A good reference book for these changes is, "The PC is not a Typewriter." As a former typesetter of 20+ years who is now a desktop publisher, please only use one space following the period at the end of a sentence. The rule can also be found in the Gregg Reference Manual, Tenth Edition, page 5, section 102. It's because PCs have proportional fonts and the typewriter was monotype.

 
Kim
said this on 11 Sep 2009 4:58:57 PM EST
The "rule" in the Gregg Reference Manual, Tenth Edition, page 5, section 102 actually states: "As a general rule, use one space after the period at the end of a sentence, but switch to two spaces whenever you feel a stronger visual break between sentences is needed. In all cases, the deciding factor should be the appearance of the breaks between sentences in a given document."

 
Linda
said this on 11 Sep 2009 4:54:44 PM EST
When word processors first came out I was told that two spaces after a period were no longer necessary because most fonts are proportional. That allows a word to be spaced more closely and still be set off from the next one. If you're using a non-proportional font like Courier, you would probably want to keep the two spaces for readability.

 
Kay
said this on 11 Sep 2009 7:37:10 PM EST
Ever tried reading Shakespeare? Language changes. If it didn't we might still be speaking Olde English with no standard spellings. (Thank you, Dr. Johnson!). Common usage is a strong driver for change in language. Each generation adds something. The rule will be the rule until common usage changes it. Do your best - let go of the rest!

 
sjb
said this on 21 Sep 2009 12:04:23 PM EST
Thank you to all who responded regarding the comma.




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