Alice Bumgarner, editor of Administrative Professional Today and contributing writer for Executive Leadership, has been writing about workplace and family issues for 13 years. Her articles have appeared in dozens of publications, including http://Salon.com, http://MSN.com, Continental magazine, Southern Living and Town & Country. She lives in Durham, N.C., with her husband, two daughters and dog Milo.
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"Our office allows a more casual attire in the summer. But some of the employees push it way too far. It doesn't help that the VP in charge of the office likes to wear shorts, so everyone else thinks it should be OK. We don't have any written rules on this, but I think it's hurting our image (as some of our sales reps sometimes have clients in for meetings). How can I present this to 'Mr. Casual' VP...or should I? -- Kathleen
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said this on 26 Jun 2009 4:16:55 PM EST
You can try, once, asking him informally, "Do you think the casual summer attire could hurt our image when clients come to the office?"
It sounds like he'll probably say "no" at which point you drop it, but he might say, "I never considered that..." which indicates you can make your case. |
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said this on 26 Jun 2009 4:17:37 PM EST
If your VP is wearing shorts to work, you probably would be wasting time mentioning it - and he/she may find it offensive. However, look for articles that speak to the matter - how this may look to your clients and also how some manner of dress does affect productivity. There are many articles out there - just google some.
This really depends on the type of organization in which you are working as well. |
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said this on 26 Jun 2009 4:20:23 PM EST
Honestly, even in a "casual" work environment, shorts should NEVER be worn by anyone---especially a VP.
The best way to handle is to draft a "Dress Code Policy" and present it to the VP and give reasons as to why you feel this will be benefical to everyone, especially your clients. Good luck. |
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said this on 26 Jun 2009 4:22:44 PM EST
If you want to offend the VP and possibly become known as the Dress Code Nazi (we have one of those here) then go for it! Otherwise, I say dress as professionally as you see fit and hope that others follow your example. If they do great! If they don't, that's their choice.
Bottom line there is no way for you to bring this up without a very real chance of it biting you in the bermudas! |
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said this on 13 Jul 2009 12:58:48 PM EST
Mary - agree with your comment to the point. Thank you.
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said this on 29 Jun 2009 11:27:22 AM EST
Mary - I love your comment. Short and to the point. I agree. Thank you.
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said this on 02 Jul 2009 9:38:39 AM EST
Mary - I'm with you. If the standard isn't being set from management, you just need to set an appropriate example yourself!
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said this on 26 Jun 2009 4:26:49 PM EST
I think casual dress is just fine, most especially when it's in a hot environment like where I live and work - Phoenix, Arizona. We are a young, hip, fun, culture-rich software company and casual dress is part of the culture here. It's not insulting to guests, and we do NOT apologize for it. It actually shows that we work in a fun, hip place. From our CEO to our VPs, to our managers, to our employees, casual dress is common and not thought of as inappropriate.
The key is to make note specifically what items/articles of clothing are inappropriate and put that in your handbook. Have those be the guidelines and then just enjoy getting to be comfortable at work! |
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said this on 13 Jul 2009 1:10:22 PM EST
Tara, I want to work at your company! Kentucky is boring.
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said this on 26 Jun 2009 4:38:34 PM EST
Exactly! Thank you Tara! Too many people prescribe to out dated dress code beliefs that nobody is following any more.
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said this on 26 Jun 2009 4:29:48 PM EST
I used to work for an attorney in a small town in Oregon. He always dressed professionally (to him it was casual to go without a vest & tie) because he'd been in corporate law most of his professional life.
But there was another firm that the attorney not only wore shorts to work, he also wore Hawaiian shirts and sandals to the office, most of the year, not just the summer. He didn't realize that his casual image was hurting his business, he was known as the "joke" attorney because of his casual attire. It took having my attorney point this out to him to begin to see that he needed to change his image. Sometimes a colleague can get a point across that the staff never can. We were being swamped with new cases because people refused to pay the joke for representation. We had another attorney who wore short-sleeved shirts with a clip-on tie, and usually had cow manure on his boots when he showed up in court. The JUDGE would refuse to hear the case until he presented himself in a professional manner in his courtroom - he finally got the point! |
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said this on 26 Jun 2009 4:42:00 PM EST
Your VP has already set the acceptable standard of dress by wearing shorts. I don't think he would be receptive to your request for higher standards. However, you can set and maintain your own professional image by dressing in a manner that you believe is truly a professional look. No matter how your coworkers dress for the office, you will always be remembered as having a professional appearance.
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said this on 29 Jun 2009 12:52:10 PM EST
If the VP in charge of the office wears shorts, and you don't have a written dress code, there's not much you can do! No one is "violating the dress code" if you don't have one.
I'd suggest writing up a basic dress code defining what's acceptable (and what isn't). Then also discuss how you're going to enforce the dress code (deciding who's responsible for talking to people if they deviate from what's acceptable). We usually leave that up to the manager of the person. Decide what the consequences will be if they dress inappropriately -- we try to give them a couple of warnings, and explain what they're doing wrong. If we have people who are "repeat offenders" and if they have been warned previously, we'll send them home to change (and not pay them for the time they're gone from the office!). That sends a strong message. We want to maintain a professional workplace, but some people push the limits about what's appropriate (or they truly don't understand that what they're doing doesn't meet the guidelines). Although we have a "no jeans" guideline, we've had people show up at work wearing black, five-pocket denim jeans (I guess because they're not "blue" they think they don't count as jeans!). |
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said this on 26 Jun 2009 4:58:06 PM EST
Our office is casual all year round and we've never had any issues with our dress code when it comes to external visitors. When we have meetings with external visitors (customers or potential business partners) we let them know how to dress for the meeting and what to expect when we tour the offices so there are no surprises. We also let our internal meeting attendees know how to dress. Typically, our meeting attendees wear business attire or business casual attire. My suggestion, go with the flow, enjoy the relaxed summer attire and be up front with your customers. I'm sure they'll understand and appreciate you giving them a heads up, because no one wants to show up over dressed.
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said this on 26 Jun 2009 11:58:37 PM EST
Our military office was authorizing civilian casual clothing on Fridays, however, it was abused by way of shorts and flip flops... grown men not understanding the meaning of casual... our commander reminded them that flip flops and shorts are not business casual... civilian clothing on Fridays has been cutback.... if you feel casual clothing is pushing the "what is appropriate" envelope, maybe a carefully worded suggestion may get your boss thinking...
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said this on 29 Jun 2009 8:16:13 AM EST
If this attire is permitted than just enjoy that. Maybe you could suggest creating a dress code so that employees don't take things too far because there are a varied number of styles out there and things like, mini skirts, low cut blouse's, etc should not be worn, but if shorts are worn by the VP and everyone else, it sounds like that is the dress code. Unless you have clients that make comments or take their business elsewhere, maybe they enjoy that environment?
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said this on 29 Jun 2009 8:34:45 AM EST
If management doesn't mind, why do you? You're responsible for your way of dressing--no one else's. All you can do is set an example.
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said this on 29 Jun 2009 8:40:53 AM EST
Call me old-fashioned, but I have been working in an office environment for over 30 years. There was a time when even pant-suits were inappropriate for a woman to wear to the office and men wore suits. In these modern times, business casual is considered appropriate whereby men shun the ties for the summer; women can now wear pants to the office and jeans are common place on dress-down Fridays.
However, wearing shorts (men or women), mini-skirts with high black boots (we have one of those), low-cut tops, flip flops, in my view, are all inappropriate office attire unless you are working from a home office and are not receiving customers. Then you can wear pyjamas all day if you want to. If there is no dress code in your office, you might want to suggest one, as someone mentioned previously. There are many, many online that you can start with, if you do a simple google search. Good luck. |
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said this on 29 Jun 2009 8:54:18 AM EST
Five Stars for Patty -- I also have worked in an office environment for over 30 years and have been in upper management for 22 of those years. You can dress casual without appearing as if you are on your way to the beach or a cookout.
I find it insulting for a woman to wear tops so low that the men feel uncomfortable when they are sitting down and try look up at her and all they see are breasts showing. What happened to the modesty in our culture? There is a place for low cut tops and the office is definitely not it. |
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said this on 29 Jun 2009 1:09:00 PM EST
Even during summer months I follow this advice I received a long time ago:
"Always dress for the job you want, not the job you have." I've always found that to be a good guideline to follow. |
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said this on 15 Jul 2009 10:27:26 AM EST
Very funny what my friend replied me when I mentioned your advice to her. She said that the job she wants is to be an astronaut, but she is an attorney, so can she dress like the job she wants? :)
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said this on 30 Jun 2009 8:48:50 AM EST
Thank you Sharon and Judy. I believe that there is appropriate office attire as well. An occasional dress down day before a holiday when customers or patients will not in is fine but on a day to day basis, looking professional speaks volumes to not only your company's integrity but to your own as well!
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said this on 30 Jun 2009 6:19:35 PM EST
I think Mary said it best. Let it go and wear what you feel is appropriate. I agree that when working with clients sales reps should be dressing professionally. However the bar is being changed because of the culture shift in Corporate America. I've worked for companies that have no dress code and I've worked for companies that do have dress codes. It comes down to what your company culture is. What you may see as a problem may not be a problem to someone else.
The differing opinions here on dress code are evidence of that but one thing most of us would agree is that if you do decide to take action and speak to the VP there will be consequences good or bad. Then you have to ask yourself given the current economic environment am I able to move on to another position if this doesn't turn out favorably? If not, is the way the VP and the rest of the staff dressing so offensive that I can't stand to work in this environment? Some times the best way to make a change is by doing nothing at all. Continue dressing professionally. More than anything you may find yourself moving into a promotion because you are dressed professionally while everyone else is wearing their Saturday best. Or you may be the stand out and the VP and other staff may ask you why you choose to dress professionally when everyone else is so casual. Then you can make your opinion known in a non-judgemental manner about professional dress in the work place. |
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said this on 01 Jul 2009 10:36:02 PM EST
This can definitely be tricky, and in my opinion a company dress code would dictate the attire. I have worked for very strict companies and others who didn't care, bottom line, I always cared and even though I was allowed a casual attire day I didn't use it. I come from a philosophy that my first impression of someone I may meet is very important and lost opportunity can be lost forever. If I were to lose an opportunity based on my appearance or lack of professionalism it may generate, well, that is just ridiculous. On the other hand, I have also had tough conversations with my employees when they have crossed the line on a casual attire work day, but it was within my authority. Personally, I would not report it and take pride in my appearance even on casual attire days.
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said this on 04 Jul 2009 3:04:48 AM EST
I agree with Mary, dress as you feel is appropriate for you. That being said, there certainly are times when coworkers dress so unprofessionally as to be offensive. Can one be casual and trendy without looking trashy or slovenly? It's not so much a matter of antiquated ideals as having a sense of propriety that corresponds to your environment and being aware of your audience. I was taught that the way you dress shows your respect for others as well as your individuality. But then, I still say please, thank you and excuse me...
Is this something you can discuss carefully and confidentially with HR rather than directly with the VP? The best advice I have seen in these messages is to watch your step, you do NOT want to find yourself looking for a new position right now. |
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said this on 08 Jul 2009 1:27:25 PM EST
I would not waste my time on this initiative. Dress the way you feel comfortable and don't worry about anyone else including the VP. More companies are going casual dress so maybe you should go with the flow...I would love to wear shorts to work. You can wear a nice suit jacket and dress shorts up to be business acceptable. Remember skorts? Same thing. Good luck. Find something else - maybe something that will save the company money - to work on.
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said this on 10 Jul 2009 7:22:49 PM EST
I'm with Ruth. The boss is the boss, and if he wants to wear shorts in the summer, it's his issue, not yours. Our old-line public agency has casual Friday. Most of us wear nice jeans and comfortable (not revealing) tops as we deal with the public, and our public dresses a lot more casually than we do. Dress as you would like to be perceived by others higher on the food chain; if it's really hot, city shorts and a sleveless top, covered with a short-selved jacket and nice sandals. You'll look great!
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said this on 13 Jul 2009 2:30:26 PM EST
Did I miss what your function is within this company? Are you responsible for policy writing and adherence to policy? I may not agree with the way some of the employees dress where I work but I certainly would not be taking on the boss' work attire or take it upon myself to bring about a policy to change it. Dress the way you feel is appropriate and unless you are asked to draft a policy, don't go there.
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said this on 03 Sep 2009 11:53:16 AM EST
Honestly, dress codes are simply outdated. The fact that men still have to wear ties with their suits while women can wear button-downs with 2-3 buttons unbuttoned is simply ridiculous and unfair. True, it's tradition, but if one group of people don't have to wear ties, the other shouldn't have to either. The sex of the person should not matter.
I also get mad that women may sandals to work, but when a man tries to get away with it, he is told to cover up his feet. That's why casual attire in the workplace is simply the fairest way to make everyone on an equal playing field. |

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